I doubt any Republican Presidents would have done this

[Mark the Mailman]

"Can we bring Thomas Jefferson back from the grave, and make him our President again???"

You know Daisy, that might not be a bad idea....If him, or any of the founding fathers, and original drafters of
our Constitution were able to re-appear today, they might be appalled at how things have turned out.....
It would be extremely interesting to get their take on things, to let everyone in politics, on both sides, get to hear
what they had to say about our current state of affairs.....
The sad part is this...that's not going to happen,
And the other one is, there would still be millions of screaming people letting them know that they were WRONG,
and that those original principals don't jive with the way things are in the current state of government affairs....
It would be interesting though to see which side of the fence would scream the loudest when they were told that
their way of thinking was being questioned by the original elder statesmen.

I guess I'm a 'centrist' . I can see the follie, and the fallicy of a far left, or far right political opinion.
I think it was Dwight Eisenhower who once made the statement.
If the road is rough, it is best not to travel down the far left side, or the far right side, but stay in the middle.
That surely isn't happening right now...It is your opinion that we are on the left side of the road.
But, it is my opinion that we sure don't need to swerve to the far right and things will be any better.

[keepitreal]

It's my opinion that we have been traveling the far Right path for too long... and a correction to the Left is not only justified, but essential. Notice I said Left...NOT FAR LEFT....

[WindowMan]

Since Daisy wants to bring Thomas Jefferson out of the grave back, I will bring back some words that he stated..

"Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties: 1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes. 2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not the most wise depositary of the public interests. In every country these two parties exist, and in every one where they are free to think, speak, and write, they will declare themselves. Call them, therefore, Liberals and Serviles, Jacobins and Ultras, Whigs and Tories, Republicans and Federalists, Aristocrats and Democrats, or by whatever name you please, they are the same parties still and pursue the same object. The last one of Aristocrats and Democrats is the true one expressing the essence of all." --Thomas Jefferson to Henry Lee, 1824. ME 16:73

Looks like Thomas Jefferson did not care about political parties as he thought they all persue the same object.. Just wonder which party distrust's the people the most?

[ucanit]

Ouch!! Stop the yelling, you're hurting my ears, WindowMan!

I think I'm centrist too, kir. Slightly right of center...but not nearly as far out in orbit as WindowMan thinks I am. So, help me out here. Give me an example of something you support that's left of where we are now (but not FAR left) and let's see if I like it. K?

[DazedandConfused]

I saw Nancy Pelosi today saying that she was going to pass ObamaCare come hell or high water. To hell with the economy or what the people want. Now is not the time to bend over just because Obama had a meeting on TV. If you can't recognize a Trojan Horse then you don't have your eyes open. Lower your guard and just watch what happens. The OP&R agenda has not changed one bit. I am a fiscal conservative, and I am not fooled by this plot. That was a crushing defeat in Mass. and this is the liberals way of grabbing victory from defeat. We must remain on the attack until ObamaCare, Global Warming and Terrorists Rights is sent back to the hell from which it came.

[WindowMan]

What did you say ucanit? I try to get through some barriers with my posts sometimes.. Yeah most of us claim to be centrists with a lean right or left but all too many times the lean's really rock the boat! Ucanit with the way you've been cutting up Obama and the healthcare and global warming issue I really think sometimes your way out in right field, just like a couple of other people in here who like to get their message across without naming names. Why do issues have a right or left on them anyways when they effect all people, you name it, terrorism, global warming and healthcare? I think regardless of anyone else's opinion that they all are valid issues.

[DAISYCUTTER]

windowman, Number 1 fits Obama, Pelosi, and Reid to a tee, with a few changed words from the GREAT Thomas Jefferson: "OBAMA, PELOSI, AND REID, WHO FEAR AND DISTRUST THE PEOPLE, AND WISH TO DRAW ALL POWERS FROM THE PEOPLE, INTO THE HANDS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT! Just look at the Health care bill they want to force down our throats, and the "Cap and trade" bill! Both these bills would steal your freedoms, and give them to Nancy, Harry, and Barry!

[DazedandConfused]

WindowMan, can't you see that when you say we are way out in right field because we oppose the federal takeover of the healthcare system, a ridiculus Cap & Trade bill, and granting Islamic Terrorists the same rights afforded American citizen, that anything that you disagree with is to be considered extreme. Supporting this nonsense is to be considered reasonable and middle of the road - NO - it is pure extreme left wing.

[ucanit]

It's no use, folks! WindowMan is a dyed-in-the-wool Progressive!!

Contemporary progressivism
The fourth and current liberal Progressive movement grew out of social activism movements, Naderite and populist left political movements in conjunction with the civil rights, GLBT (Gay rights), women's or feminist, and environmental movements of the 1960s-1980s.[28] This exists as a cluster of political, activist, and media organizations ranging in outlook from centrism (eg. Reform Party of the United States of America) to left-liberalism to social democracy (like the Green Party) and sometimes even democratic socialism (like the Socialist Party USA).

Modern American progressivism includes political figures such as Barack Obama who calls himself a progressive, as do Joe Biden[29], Hillary Clinton[30], John Kerry[31] Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold, Al Franken, Debbie Stabenow, Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, Cynthia McKinney, John Edwards, Sherrod Brown, Kathleen Sebelius, David McReynolds, Ralph Nader, Howard Dean, Peter Camejo, Al Gore, and the late Paul Wellstone and Ted Kennedy. Also in this category are many leaders in the women's movement, cosmopolitanism, the labor movement, the American civil rights movement, the environmental movement, the immigrant rights movement, and the gay and lesbian rights movement. Other well-known progressives include Noam Chomsky, Cornel West, Howard Zinn, Michael Parenti, George Lakoff, Michael Lerner, and Urvashi Vaid.

Significant publications include The Progressive magazine, The Nation, The New Republic, The American Prospect, The Huffington Post, Mother Jones, In These Times, CounterPunch, and AlterNet.org. Broadcasting outlets include Air America Radio, the Pacifica Radio network, Democracy Now!, and certain community radio stations. Notable media voices include Cenk Uygur, Alexander Cockburn, Barbara Ehrenreich, Juan Gonzalez, Amy Goodman, Thom Hartmann, Arianna Huffington, Jim Hightower, the late Molly Ivins, Ron Reagan, Rachel Maddow, Bill Maher, Stephanie Miller, Mike Malloy, Keith Olbermann, Greg Palast, Randi Rhodes, Betsy Rosenberg, Ed Schultz, David Sirota, and The Young Turks (talk show).

Modern issues for progressives can include[citation needed]: electoral reform (including instant runoff voting, proportional representation and fusion candidates), environmental conservation, pollution control and environmentalism, same-sex marriage, easy access to abortion, universal health care, abolition of the death penalty, affordable housing, a viable Social Security System, renewable energy, smart growth urban development, a living wage and pro-union policies, among many others.

Examples of the broad range of progressive texts include: New Age Politics by Mark Satin; Why Americans Hate Politics by E.J. Dionne, Jr.; Community Building: Renewing Spirit & Learning in Business edited by Kazimierz Gozdz; Ecopolitics: Building a Green Society by Daniel Coleman; and Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich.

The main current national progressive parties are the Democratic Party and the Green Party of the United States. The Democratic Party has major-party status in all fifty States, while there are state Green Parties or affiliates with the national Green Party in most states. The most successful non-major state-level progressive party is the Vermont Progressive Party. However, progressives often shy away from parties and align within more community-oriented activist groups, coalitions and networks, such as the Maine People's Alliance and Northeast Action.

PS...Pay a little attention to what GEEZER has posted about "The Progressive Movement." If it's not stopped, we'll all be living under total government control.

[WindowMan]

Well I will give all of you the floor and keep my "Progressive" views to myself. You know I think it is crazy to be on here and debate anything when it just comes down to people wanting to put a damn label on someone to try to discredit what they say. I mean you write a damn book to tell me why I say the things that I do like it is some kind of damn conspiracy or plot. I mean I really do not care anymore to try to say my point or defend my opinion. We all are individuals with dynamic opinions and thoughts and not some kind of brained washed zombies you want to label and group.

I think that we all have our opinions about everythng and having a shouting match on who is correct or how wrong the other person is in their thoughts does not accomplish anything. I have no ambitions to change the way you all think and I never go out of my way to put any of you down for what you believe in and that is the main difference between us. So again, I will take a leave of absence from this board for awhile. Have the floor!